Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 31 May 91 Volume 91 : Issue 306 Today's Topics: .gif files Atari 540ST Questions Atari TT Fan on the MEGAFILE 30 (2 msgs) GNU Compiler Error grass not greener on other side IMG gormat Legal action against STrabble game. Neophyte question: what's Blitter? Publishers (II) (2 msgs) Relative speed tests... Speed Test Stupid question on using ARC for the ST ST User Virus! What's a fair comparison Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 91 17:23:45 GMT From: news.larc.nasa.gov!asdsun.larc.nasa.gov!klassa@ames.arpa (John Klassa) Subject: .gif files To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is there an FTP site somewhere that maintains an archive of .gif files? Thanks, John Klassa klassa@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 16:01:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!csn!ccncsu!lamar!sytang@arizona.edu (Shoou-yu tang) Subject: Atari 540ST Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes: >> mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes: >> >also the usual assortment of Hard Drives available. I haven't seen any >> >CD-Roms yet or Optical Drives yet, though. There are removable Hard >> Atari sells two kind of CD-ROMs. The CDAR504 has a ACSI port, the CDAR505 >> is a SCSI device. There is also a MOD from Sony. > >Really? Could someone tell me about these devices? Price, capacity, and >type of software available would be of particular interest? > > Yes, they do. However, the CDAR504 was never offered to public and has been discountinued. The 505 was reported been shown in computer show and suppose to be release to public soon. You can find more about 505 in various ST magazines that has detail report on the past CeBiT (hope I spelled it right) show.( Like the free ATARI USER magaize, the Znet on-line). Maybe Alan or Atari willing to shine some more light on the specifications and possible CD-ROM titles for 505? Tang sytang@lamar.colostate.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 91 07:07:51 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.e du (Juxtaposer) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1884@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com> chuck@cpg.trs.reuter.com (Chuck Menard) writes: > >How's this: TT030, 4M, 50M HD, with Color Monitor - $2680 >Subtract about $500 without Color Monitor. I believe that you can also >get the 2M TT030 for just under $2000. A 4M model includes 2M of ST >RAM on the motherboard plus another daughterboard with 2 more Meg. One >can expand this ST RAM daughterboard to 10 M. The fast TT RAM includes >another daughterboard with 1M Sims to add another 4M to make a TT030 >8M model. Remove the 1M Sims from this TT daughterboard and replace >them with 4M Sims to expand TT RAM to 16M. Result total RAM = 10 + >16 = 26M. I was told today from a dealer here in the Chicago area that >these RAM expansion boards will be ready for sale around mid June here. From the discussion on c.s.a.st a while back with Alan Pratt, I believe he said that you can only have 4MB _ST_ ram. You can have 16 MB TTram like you said, but that the other 6MB of ram comes from using the VME bus for ram expansion. In fact, the VME ram is supposed to be faster than STram (no sharing it with video, etc.), even though it is slower than TT ram. However, I wonder why you are limited to only 6MB from the VME? Is it Atari being silly and not allowing you to use _most_ of the '030's addressing capability (of course SOME of it has to be reserved for I/O etc. but not more than 32k worth!) like they did with the ST (you know - the 68k can address 16MB but you are limited to using 4MB max - I mean, even if you dedicated 512k to I/O,ROM,etc. you could put in 15 1/2 MB around it. It would be worth it to use 4-4MB SIMMs as you would only be losing the use of 1/8 of one of the SIMMs (actually 1/16 of two of them)). > >CUL, >Chuck > >P.S. Software from my ST is running many times faster on the TT - to be > expected! :) -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 14:27:04 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!ox.com!math.fu-berlin.de!ma ilgzrz!opal.cs.tu-berlin.de!gerloff@arizona.edu (Olaf Gerloff) Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May30.221736.31169@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, whitten@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: |> |> I've had a megafile 30 for about a year, and the only complaint |> I've had is the loud fan. Is it really needed, or will the |> drive run cool enough without it? Are there any ways to quiet the |> fan, maybe replacing it with a quieter one? |> Hello Chris! I think you need the fan, because those Seagate drives in the MEGAFILE 30 can get hot. Here in Germany are kit's aviable to make the fan not so loud. First of all you can remove the lattice behind the fan. I heard of some people that solder a resistor in the power connection of the fan. I have a little kit, that turns the fan only on, if it is to hot in the drive. You need nothing to solder for that one. Greetings, Olaf -- ****************************************************************************** * Olaf Gerloff * Internet: GERLOFF@tubvm.cs.tu-berlin.de * * Technical University Berlin (FRG)* or gerloff@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de * * Department of Computer Science * BITNET : GERLOFF@DB0TUI11 * * Computerbased Informationsystems * Usenet : ...!mcsun!unido!opal!gerloff * ****************************************************************************** * Impossible things will be executed immediately, * * miracles take a little longer! * ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 15:22:25 GMT From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud) Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Insert an speed regulator on your fan (so did I and it workt great). It adjusts the speed to fit the temp. inside the harddisk... Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________ Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST __________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 15:34:31 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: GNU Compiler Error To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9105082156.aa25310@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu>, bferrer@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU says: > > After downloading the gcc compiler and getting very thing ready, I came >across another problem. When I type in gulam gcc -v hello.c, I get an error: > >can't find d:\tmp/cc100000.s > >or something like that. gcc created a file that has a slash in the filename >which does not exist how can i fix this error. Whilst apratt, entropy, bammi and davidli are all correct in observing that the GNU environment variables need setting correctly, I believe that this is *NOT* the case for this poster and that pointed references to "RTFR" may have been a little harsh. I got *exactly* the same problem --- but with *all* the enviroment variables correctly set --- boy, was I confused before I figured out what I'd done ... I had d/l'ed gcc139b.lzh from terminator and (deliberately neglecting to keep copies of the previous port) unarchived the replacement code straight into my c:/gnu directory, including the CRC-corrupted cc1, the corruption of which lharc reported, but it nevertheless wrote the file. The corruption was reported here, but a correction wasn't immediately available (no criticism intended). I never followed this up until recently, when I had occasion to test a gnumake port which resulted in the now-familiar "can't find c:/usr/tmp/cc100000.s" message If you use the original corrupted distribution (i.e. without replacing the gcc-cc1.ttp with the updated version from a.a.umich.edu), GCC reports that it is unable to find $TMP/cc100000.s --- because the corrupt cc1 has the -quiet flag automatically set, it crashes and exits quietly, never writing the .s file, hence the 'cannot find" error. I d/'ed the corrected distribution of cc1 from a.a.u.e and the problem vanished. I checked the posters' queries and they were both quoting problems with "$TEMP/cc100000.s", which should have tipped us off; "$TEMP/cc100000.cpp" ~ ~~~ (the first temp file to be written) is normally associated with environment variable problems. Having a missing .s file means that a .cpp file was found by cc1. Question: Does gcc139b.lzh on a.a.u.e contain the corrupted or uncorrupted gcc-cc1.ttp? It's not immediately obvious because both versions of cc1 are exactly the same byte size. Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 09:49:57 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!simvax .labmed.umn.edu!davidli@arizona.edu Subject: grass not greener on other side To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu For all of those out there who appear to believe that the grass is greener in other computer pastures for small developers, I refer them to the July 1991 issue of Macworld, wherein Steven Levy writes an article titled "The Rime of the Ancient Marketer: a cautionary tale for little guys in the Mac marketplace". Several quotes of interest: "I don't know if any small companies will be around soon," he told me. "Nine companies sell over 90 percent of the software, and over a hundred are fighting for the rest." "But not everything was rosy. Apple had just instituted a policy that required developers to pay $750 for the privilege of being authorized to write the software that would support the Mac." Caveat emptor. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 91 19:50:50 GMT From: mcsun!unido!mcshh!malihh!pfunk!blackbox@uunet.uu.net (Michael Kistenmacher) Subject: IMG gormat To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991May29.014046.24302@lsuc.on.ca>, Jim Omura writes: >In article blackbox@pfunk.hanse.de writes: >>1 word pattern length in bytes [1-8, usually 2 for screen images] > > I've been meaning to ask this for a while now, and this seems >like a good time. What is this "pattern length" all about? >It can't be the length of the data bytes. That would be 32000 rather >than 2. "pattern length" means the fill-pattern. As it looks, you can define your own fill patterns and save them with your IMG-file. As you may know, standard fill patterns are 16 pixel wide, so it's the 2 for two bytes. > >>1 word pixel width in microns (1/1000 mm, 25400 microns per inch) >>1 word pixel height in microns > > Does most software actually take this into account for anything >or can you leaave the pixel dimension 0? When you are using your ATARI for publishing, you will need this information for restoring the original size of your IMG. In CALAMUS (SL Version is on the run since this week) you have a function for restoring this, but it will only work, if you have inserted the correct data. Please do so. Bye....Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | listen to the coolest ! | Michael Kistenmacher / blackbox | | Music from the Galaxy ! | 2000 Hamburg 61 / Schippelsweg 64 | | !!! P-Funk !!! | West Germany / ++ 49 40 552 37 66 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 08:00:30 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!robin@uunet.uu.net (R C Smith) Subject: Legal action against STrabble game. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >The rights to Tetris are owned by a Russian company who sells it to >various other companies. I thought that there was no copyright laws in the Soviet Union? Therefore anything they have we can copy? :-) ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 17:03:49 GMT From: ogicse!milton!darkstar@uunet.uu.net (Alden Hackmann) Subject: Neophyte question: what's Blitter? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu We are the very new (3 days) owners of an Atari 1040 STe. There is a toggle on the options menu for something called Blitter. The little manual has no reference to it at all. Can anyone enlighten us as to the meaning of this option? Thank you very much Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar@milton.u.washington.edu "Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world." ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 10:06:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!simvax.labmed.u mn.edu!davidli@arizona.edu Subject: Publishers (II) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <42806@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > You're seeing effects of the death of the Atari marketplace in the US. > There are no longer enough Atari users or advertisers to support large > "glossy" magazines. There are still a few smaller magazines trying to > support the market, but they may be hard to find. Not exactly true, Bob. ST Log was making money when it was folded into ANALOG, and was still making money when the publisher decided to discontinue publishing the magazine. Likewise, STart's parent company was still making money from the magazine --- it was 'killed' by cash draw-off to other publications within the same company (or so I am led to believe from the conflicting press reports to which I've had access.) It wasn't from lack of subscribers OR advertisers that these magazines died -- it was a decision by the publishers to put their money into other endeavors. As for other "glossy" magazines, both ST User and ST Format (from England) have been selling well in my own neck of the woods -- I imagine that quite a large number of folks wouldn't mind a subscription service for either (ie. import the magazines from England, ship them to subscribers in the United States). I find them interesting enough to devote the $7.95 + tax that my local ST dealer charges for them each month. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 15:44:13 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tekgen!boblu@uunet.uu.net (Robert Luneski) Subject: Publishers (II) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May31.100600.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: >In article <42806@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > >> You're seeing effects of the death of the Atari marketplace in the US. >> There are no longer enough Atari users or advertisers to support large >> "glossy" magazines. There are still a few smaller magazines trying to >> support the market, but they may be hard to find. > >It wasn't from lack of subscribers OR advertisers that these magazines died -- >it was a decision by the publishers to put their money into other endeavors. > It most certainly was. Look at the number and size of ads in thier final issue. The total advertsing revenue from those is insignificant relative to the cost of producing a glossy. I know of at least three writers for STart that Antic Publishing owes over $3000 each with no ability or intention to pay. They don't have any money left to divert to other endevors. Read the full page editorial in STart's final issue explaining thier decision to go bimonthly. Paraphrased from thier own words, the logic goes like this: 1) No users = No software sales 2) No software sales = No developers 3) No developers = No advertsing 4) No advertising = No magazine Regardless of personnal opinion of the quality of journalism provided by STart, the loss of the last domestically produced glossy is not a good sign for the health of the US Atari community. Unfortunately, it is not the only bad sign. ____ ____ /\/\/\ Bob Luneski Diamond Back II Support: boblu@tekgen.BV.TEK.COM /\/\/\ \/\/\/ Oregon Research Associates Genie: B.LUNESKI1 \/\/\/ \/\/ 16200 S.W. Pacific Hwy., Suite 162 Phone: (503) 620-4919 \/\/ \/ Tigard, OR 97224 FAX: (503) 639-6182 \/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 91 11:14 GMT From: "Searching......Seek and Destroy!" Subject: Relative speed tests... To: INFO-ATARI16 <@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk:INFO-ATARI16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.edu> The idea of have the time gnu C takes to compile it self doesn't sound fair as a test of processing power as in any system, the HD is the slow link in the chain during compilation. I have a fairer idea. A friend of maine has a peice of code in g++ which will allow the factorials of very large numbers to be calculated exactly as a veru big integer. The test I propose is if I post this peice of code to the net, get someone with any machine which has g++ to compile it and then time their machine to find factorial 7000. If anyone's interested, our VAX did it in just over 5 minutes of cpu. I'll put the code up as soon as I can get it off of him. I'm sure everyone will agree this is a fairer test of the machine as it is independent of the speed of the HD. Lee. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / / / / Lee Bohan, / LB7@UK.AC.YORK.VAXA / / Goodricke College, / INTERNET send via nsfnet relay / / University Of York, / BITNET send via earn relay / / Heslington, York, / / / England, //////////////////////////////////////// / YO1 5DD. / / / ///////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 91 15:42 GMT From: Lee Bohan Subject: Speed Test To: INFO-ATARI16 <@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk:INFO-ATARI16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.edu> Here's the peice of code I promised...just compile it under G++ and time how long it takes to calculate factorial 7000.....have fun... Lee. ////////////////////////////////////// // // Silly factorial proggie.. // ////////////////////////////////////// #include Integer factorial(Integer temp); int main() { Integer fred = 0; cout << "WHAT is your favourite number ? \t"; cin >> fred; fred=factorial(fred); cout << fred; } Integer factorial(Integer temp) { Integer count; count=temp; while(count != 1) { count-=1; temp *= count; } return temp; } ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 13:09:05 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!shamash!ti mbuk!marc@arizona.edu (Marc Bouron) Subject: Stupid question on using ARC for the ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <42805@cup.portal.com>, Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com (William Thomas Daugustine) writes: > > Like the title says, this is a simple, stupid question... Disagree... though it may be on FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) ? > I downloaded a file called ARCsomething.TTP, and need to know the > syntax for using it. I tried all the possible combinations I could > think of, but theres obviously one I cant think of. I dont quite > recall the exact full name of the program, but it was something > like arc v6. If someone could help me out, mail me the doc file, > etc, Id like that :-) X FILE.ARC - will extract all files from archive X FILE.ARC FOO.BAR - will extract file FOO.BAR from srchive L FILE.ARC - will list files in archive (or is that `V' ?) By the way, 6.02 is (I think) the latest version of ARC. > Also, a similar note. I downloaded another file called arcsh20.prg, > but when I double-click on it, it gives me a TOS error #35. You may have forgotten to set the transfer mode to binary when you downloaded. > No flames please, I am totally new to the Atari ST computer world, > so I still am getting used to the way things are done... > > Thanx No problem. > Billy D'Augustine > Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com [M][a][r][c] ################################################################################ # # marc@sequoia.cray.com # . . # # Marc CR Bouron # M.Bouron@cray.co.uk (ARPA) # _|\ /|_ # # Cray Research (UK) Ltd. # M.Bouron@crayuk.uucp (DOMAIN) # (_|_V_|_) # # +44 344 485971 x2208 # M.Bouron@uk.co.cray (JANET) # | | # # # ...!ukc!crayuk!M.Bouron (UUCP) # # ################################################################################ ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 13:05:24 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard) Subject: ST User Virus! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <3100@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: > In article <5236@syma.sussex.ac.uk> grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk > (Graham S Thomas) writes: > >least. On the cover disk is what they call - several times - the 'very > >latest version of UniTerm'. The version is in fact 2.0c. ... > > You'll also find an illegal (very!) copy of NEOchrome on there too. > About now you'll all be saying "Why does this guy keep going on about > NEOchrome?". Well the answer is I would like it to be PD officially but Atari > seem disinterested. > > >Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, U of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK > >Email: grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk Phone: +44 273 678165 Fax: .. 685865 > > > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! > ! ! > ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! > ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! > ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! > ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 viruses!" ! > +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ I think you will find it is not a illegal copy, its a demo version, NEOchrome Version 0.5 -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not *** *** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! *** ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 13:39:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!know! daemon@arizona.edu Subject: What's a fair comparison To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A fair comparison is made the same way a person compairs stereo systems. The manufacturer hits you with a lot of specs. However, the true test is to bring a favourite disc, play it on the new system and if it sounds great and is in your price range buy it. Same is true for buying a computer. Forget MIPS. Decide on the applications that you're interested in and see how similar apps perform on different platforms. For example, WINDOWS 3 may LOOK great on a superVGA monitor; however, just compare speed and easy of use of MS Word, EXCEL, PageMaker, etc on Macs and 386s/Windows running these apps and you'll see that for sheere productivity the Mac wins hands down (especially when it comes to getting your printed copy). Go ahead, spend some time in computer stores running apps on various platforms - that's the FAIR comparison!!! Computer loyalty runs deeper and stronger than car loyalty. Just because someone says he loves a Mac, Atari, Amiga or PC does not mean that the same system is good for you. I sell Atari computers but often recommend that the client get a Mac; sometimes even a PC if he/she HAS to run some specialized software for the PC (normally, though, I warn novices about the complications of setting up a PC - ever install PC codes???) Novices should be advised of one thing; often the seller has absolutely no ability to give you proper advice. Often he/she may be selling a system that he/she hates but the job calls for SELL, SELL, SELL. Do not be bullied into getting a system that suits someone else. ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************